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Tuesday, January 17, 2006

 

Super 14: The Drop: Why Stormers will be swinging in the wind.


In the nineteenth century “The Drop” referred to the gruesome fall of a condemned criminal when the hangman opened the trapdoor under him or her on the public gallows at Tyburn Tree in England. The corpse was traditionally left to sway about for an hour to ensure the miscreant was really dead. This year one South Africa team will face The Drop and for a season, their corpse will sway in the gentle breeze of Currie Cup doldrums. Why will it be the Stormers? Read on.

The Stromers have a proud record in Super 12, compared to the other South African teams. They have never ended last. It is a dubious honour among a group of perennial under achievers. Last year they were the victims of some murderous forwards dominated play by the Bulls and Cheetahs in the Currie Cup, and in the case of the Bulls, the Super 12. Both those teams are still in the competition and virtually unchanged. The Cats start looking more complete in the forwards, and more likely for their tight five to compete effectively with enforcers Jannes Labuschagne, Marius Hurter, Lukas Van Biljon and Lawrence Sephaka set to provide similar grunt to their Tight Five. With Albert Van Den Berg, Johan Ackerman, BJ Botha and Bismarck Du Plessis in their tight five, even the Sharks are looking pretty competitive.

By contrast, in their tight five, the only real names are converted loosies Schalk Brits and Hanyani Shimange. Among the names they have Eddie Andrews and Ross Skeate, another man who’s no more than a converted loose forward. Last year we saw the WP tight five dismantled by the Bulls and the Cheetahs. The locks are propped up with inexperienced Andries Bekker and former Cheetah Gerrie Britz. Neither have much Super 12 experience and, in the case of Bekker, not much experience at any level beyond the juniors.

Against any team with more than a little grunt in their tight five, the Stormers are going to struggle. They start off the campaign against the Cats in Johannesburg. Then come the home games. First last year’s semi finalists, the Waratahs, who outplayed the Bulls twice. Then the Brumbies, the Highlanders, Hurricanes and Cheetahs before they head overseas to face the Force, Blues, Chiefs and Reds on the road. Finally coming home to face the awesome looking Crusaders at home and then the Sharks in Durban and the Bulls at Newlands.

Now let’s get to the nitty gritty. Last year Pat Barnard and Frederico Mendes shored up a front row that was decidedly the weakest among the top teams in the Currie Cup. Both are gone this year, leaving the weak link, Eddie Andrews with a newcomer and two converted loose forwards in Shimange and Brits. The more gritty front row was able to hold its own in the scrums, but as Ewen McKenzie said last year and the Bulls and Cheetahs proved. The scrums play but a small role in the modern game. It’s all about the loose situations, the rucks, the mauls and the lineouts. In these departments the Stormers front row is decidedly weaker than it was last year.

This leaves Gerrie Britz and Skeate, who are so-so locks to compete against the likes of Matfield, Labuschagne, Botha, Vickerman, Rawlins and Williams. This does not bode well for the Stormers. The main problem, yet again, will be the shortage of ability to compete successfully at the rucks. If anyone mauls against the Stormers, they can use this tactic alone to win the match. None of their locks are enoforcers in the Bakkies Botha / Martin Johnson mould. They look like converted loose forwards. Against powerhouse forwards dominated teams like Auckland, the Bulls and Crusaders, the Stormers will suffer.

Much has been made about the back three of the Stormers. In Greef they have an experienced, but injury prone player who could not hold down a regular spot at WP last year. Nokwe and Benjamin are raw at this level, having performed well at Boland last year, but Boland is not Super 14 rugby against the best players in the world. In particular, Nokwe’s performance against the Bulls that catapulted him to fame was against effectively a weakened Bulls side. Then we have Chavanga with his pace, but well documented weakness in defence. One would ice to think how he’d fare against players of the calibre of Howlett, Sivavatu, Rathbone, Ashwin Willemse, Toquiri and Rockockocko. We move on to the vaunted midfield where Boks De Villiers, Barry and Joubert will vie for spots. Kobus Van Der Merwe has already said he will play Barry out of position at 13 with this leaving De Villiers to fill the 12 spot. Marius Joubert will have to vie for a spot. This confusion may have a negative effect on the capability of the dangerous midfield to perform. This however does not even mention the issue of how this midfield will get any ball from a tight five that struggled to impose itself in Currie Cup rugby – and this tight five is short of the two players that actually provided the grunt.

We move to the engine room players. At flyhalf we have promising Peter Grant. I say promsing because he is yet to deliver any match winning dominant performance. In fact, in the Currie Cup 2005 he was completely outplayed in matches against the Cheetahs and Bulls with even the lowly Boland able to exact a win and this is the player who is supposed to dictate and control the release of the Bok studded midfield. Facing speedy opensiders like Ricie McCaw, Jerry Collins, George Smith, Tim Dlulane, Cobus Grobbelaar and Ryno Van Der Merwe at this pacier level may find him out. At scrumhalf we’ll see the below par performances of confidence shot Bolla Conradie and the underachieving Niel De Kock. Yet again backup comes from a highly inexperienced but promising youngster in Paul Delport. Paul Delport’s experience is at WP U21 and WP “B” level. The Super 14 is hardly the place where he should debut.

In the loose forwards the Stormers have a good combination with Schalk Burger, Luke Watson / Justin Melck and Hendrik Gerber. Joe Van Niekerk will join the team later, after recovering from injury. But a good loose trio is not going to win matches. They need the support of their tight five. That support will be non-existent in this Super 14. They will constantly be on the back foot, and trying to compete at this level without the support of the other five forwards will be a bridge too far for the Stormers. And this loose trio may be competitive, but they lack a real grunty mongrel ball carrier.

Add to this the quirky attitude of the coach who does things like drop his skipper in Niel De Kock, selects one of the best inside centres in South Africa at 13 and spent the off season contracting more wings and another hooker who’s more of a loose forward than anything else. A coach who missed the boat in contracting the enforcer lock Johan Ackerman from Griquas and left him for the Sharks to pick up. A coach who has let three quality midfield / flyhalf players in the Rose brothers and Ishmael Dollie go. Kobus Van Der Merwe is untested at this level and his experience is at Griquas as a so-so Currie Cup coach. He has Nic Mallet, ostensible Director of Coaching at WP, looking over his shoulder at every moment and this may affect his own confidence too. This is the same quirky coach who spent the end of the Currie Cup ostensibly grooming Schalk Burger to lead the Stormers in the Super 14.

With so much going against them, the Stormers are lucky in that they will not face any of the traditionally strong teams in the Brumbies and Crusaders on the road. Last year they won three matches only. This year it will be less, with them maybe beating the Sharks and competing well against the Highlanders.

This schedule, however, is not going to save them.

With everything against them the Stormers can see the noose waiting for their necks at Tyburn Tree. And nothing clears the mind like the sight of the gallows.
Comments:
Before all you province boys write revennge articles about the Cats, I intend to do articles that say why ALL the SA teams are equally in danger of the relegation ghost this year.


Yes, even the Bulls.
 
Well I can't fault you on your arguments. The biggest problem is with the coach as you stated IMO. The Stormers hadn't had a T5 for the past three years if you really think about it, but in 2004 they klapped the Bulls at Newlands like the Bulls weren't even on teh field.

Yes alot of time has passed, but I will wait and see what happens once the games start. The one thing that they have in their favour against the SA teams, except the Bulls, is that nobody has beaten them since 2000. Confidance will always be high except against the Bulls.
 
davids you paper boy!

yes sound arguments, but like i posted on the other site and what donner eluded too as well is that the stormers, or WP were consistantly shit in the CC and their forwards has been highlighted as the weakness throughout that time.

yet come S12 they always ended up teh best team in SA apart from last year.

S12/14 is not CC and through some miracle they always seem to do okay.

i do agree however that we are in for a shocker this season but i do not believe relegation.

looking at the squads, i am not sure my view i had in the last weeks is all that accurate, the sharks look a good squad.

the cheetahs might be staring down the barrel.

one thing is for sure, its going to be one hell of a comp.
 
Eish Davids, you're looking to make people mad as hell if you post any more of these articles (read: one about the Bulls!). But yes, all of them valid reasons and I agree to some extent, but think other teams have more trouble. What I'd like to hear from the province boys are counter arguments, except for the Province have never had a T5. Come now, you guys can do better than that, I know I will be waiting for Davids article about the Bulls.  
Aldo,

At this stage it is a question of wait and see with the Stormers. I really don't have any idea what they are going to dish up this year.

Like I said in my previous post the coach issue in my mind is the most important one now that De Wet has gotten the cpataincy. Previously they had coaches who understood the S12, but now they are somewhat green. No-one knows exactly how much Mallett is going to be involved. That MAYBE take some of teh coaching risks out of the equation, but this is all speculative until the games start.

For all I know the Stormers gets going against the Cats and follow it up with another win and then all of a sudden fall flat again. Lets see what happens.

This applies to all teh teams. I know the Bulls had a brilliant season last year, but history suggest that it could backfire again. The Cheetahs are on a high, but 2005 CC is gone and who knows what they will dish up. The Cats is again looking good on paper, enough said. The Sharks is again teh dark horses. Every year they seemed to be strong, they struggled and every time you expect them to be walkovers they surprise each and everyone.
 
Eish Dawie, djy vatta kans Broe'tjie!

Some of your writings hold relevance and sanity, but some of it borders on fiction.
No doubt you are a much better journo (with the neccisary credintials, of course...) than the bunch at keo, but lay off the gravy!!

I extract the following from your arti:

"With Albert Van Den Berg, Johan Ackerman, BJ Botha and Bismarck Du Plessis in their tight five, even the Sharks are looking pretty competitive." Ok, this is more an opinion of yours than a fact, but only one Bok and now they look destructive? Boyo, that's great, especially after in the very next paragraph you say there are "no real names in the Stormers t5". Why are the Tjarkies real names then?

"This leaves Gerrie Britz and Skeate, who are so-so locks to compete..." You forgot about Duimpie Theron, signed from the Griquas, not a big name I agree, but certainly bigger bulkwise than all the other locks. I don't know if he's the enforcer type, but he's bigger!

"Paul Delport’s experience is at WP U21 and WP “B” level. The Super 14 is hardly the place where he should debut." Now this issa beeg load of crappola, ver' beeg. You as a Cats supporter should know he has allready debuted in S12, and if I'm not mistaken, you were one those lauding him as Bok cptn.

Ok, I'm not a journo and I'm not being a hard-case - I get where you're coming from after what you said in the post after the arti. But mate, this is not a good way to uplift rugga in SA. Really.
You are taking the kukkest of kuk from the kuk and complaining about it....maybe you should reconsider writing all the others and try something a little more optimistic.

((For a bonus point - can you guess which muppit from keo I am?))
 
Sheet, sorry guys, I see I posted half of my posting before I finished...could someone kindly erase the faulty one or please excuse and ignore!!  
Anonymous, you sound mad, once again, please give your name at the end of your posts, then Davids can report to you, or are you afraid? Maybe someone from keo?

anyway, you must be desperate and you're clutching at straws if you call Duimpie a name lock. You don't know why Johan Ackerman is a name Lock? Have you watched a lot of rugby in your life? He's represented SA at the highest level, maybe the reason Duimpie was playing second fiddle to him at the Griquas. Same goes for Albert v/d Berg. Now tell me who except for Eddie Andrews and Hanyane "Splinter" Shimange has national exposure? And Eddie andrews is stil a suspect inclusion. There you go, do you now understand why the Sharks have names and the Stormers dont?
 
Anon,

One of the following,

Robd,
x-fire,
JUSM,
munkiboi,
Grrr...I'm a lion
raka,
Vleis
Jondood
Stan
CSB
Tackledoos
Bliksem
Katman
Badboy
Nancy
Robdylan
Sharkbyte
Ig
Oom Abel
Keo
Naidont
Cab
3rd
StM
Koos
Mannetjie
Tisme
Dawn
Flip
Province Supporter
Pussycat
Namboer
Fuzzybear
Munkiboi
Wicked wascal
 
Plus AJ at lock Aldo. So three possible Springboks at lock for the Sharks.


Thanks for that.

Given about Paul Delport. My mistake. He hasn't played at any level above U/21 CC "B" since then however. And yes I do rate him as future Bok skipper, just not now....

ps. Naahhhh.... I'm gonna write a piece on why each SA team faces relegation.


Answered Anon?


If you won't tell us your name, I'm not going to take a guess.
 
lol@donner


Isn't Nancy in jail though?
 
Hehe Donner!  
Davids,

I don't know if they have computers these days.
 
True

True enough.


After all, Tackler gets to post from his jail cell at Whangarei Maximum Security Centre...
 
Anon,

Only if you tell us your name, will we delete it.
 
NANCY,thats the name i couldnt get to yesterday!!  
Nancy was locked up for fraud Province! I see your token friend made a comment. Is he back at work?  
Kandas

Ons moet praat, kan jy my gou bel of vir my jou sel nommer email?
 
Here goes Aldo with another conspiracy theory.

Anonymous is either Keo or one of his cronies, they're afraid that this site is going to give them some serious competition, so now they want to get people to start questioning the articles. The reason I believe this is easy, and I quote "No doubt you are a much better journo (with the neccisary credintials, of course...) than the bunch at keo, but lay off the gravy!!". That comment smacks with sarcasm, so there we go. Keo, wellcome man, everybody is allowed to post, no need to hide behind an anonymous name.
 
lol@Aldo  
ANONYMOUS
You write:

"But mate, this is not a good way to uplift rugga in SA."

So, you wanna be bullshitted with some made-up sunshine facts, or do you want to be prepared for the Stormers' relegation should it happen? This is not a PR site for any franchise or team.

Have to agree with the thread, even as a Cape man (or maybe because of it). Only the Guppies can beat the Stormers to relegation.

Then again, the Antipodian S14 coaches are very good. If they find a way to counter the Bulls' forwards, there is not much they can fall back onto...
 
TSF is running an arti on where people think the teams will end.

The Kiwis with their tradional pro-thmselves bias are all reckoning tyhe Blues, Crusaders and Chiefs will be there with the Bulls - some even reckon the Bulls will reach the final!!!!!!


Of course they're also all guessing that the Cats and Sharks will end last, which is not so nice.
 
Aldo,

I think you might be onto something here.

LOL
 
Boertjie

No need to adress anonymous, he dissappeared quicker than Kandas falls asleep naked in front of his pc.

Davids

Good on the Kiwis, they at least know a quality SA side when they see one!
 
So I take it we all agree then, anonymous is keo. Next time please adress him as such.

Kandas

Take note of the man on the street's wishes, when you move the site on sunday, please do not allow anonymous posting. But before that can happen, you need to give me a call. I've got some good and bad news about the hosting. Allthough the bad news is not that bad. So finish up with your client and get your arse on the phone! ;)
 
Honestly though boertjie


I reckon the Reds are going to be the No 1 awful whipping boys team this season.

The Highlanders are pretty pathetic away from home too.
 
Dildo, i mean Aldo, unlike certain ppl i have work to do.
Howzit you boere thug? lol

i nogal missed you guys... how was the holidays? mine was cool...

anyway, back at work and things are hectic... got alot to do
 
lol@aldo


Probably more likely Chris given the spelling....

Well one unstable character has the Stormers down as finishing third so I wouldn't call that recognition of power Aldo...

heheheh
 
wpw


Hectic first couple of days and settling into a routine now again.
 
Oh mine gosh! Dildo? Now I've been called everything from gay to a sex ty by Wes. Kandas, new request, when we move the server, we take it back to the days of apartheid and not allow token guys or woman on the site. Okay, woman are allowed, but not tokens and we get Eugene Terreblanche as leader of the pack.  
yip, cant wait for the S14 to start. Have you been to KEO's site? i havent seen any of the regulars on this site making any posts...  
It's because we're boere thugs and won't post on that pro BEE site. We only support white only sites and drink brandy!  
Anyway

I've posted there once or twice, I've seen Davids give Chris kak and I've seen Piisant as well. They don't really post anything we can't find here and they change all the stories to make them more sensational.
 
Welcome back wpw,

Glad you enjoyed the holiday. Busy settling into the new year and trying to keep the site going.

BTW can you mail me dawn's email at donner@ruggaworld.com
 
Heheheh,

I see Ig is quite upset. And I wasn't even around to cause it.
 
thanx donner... you said you live in brackenfell or protea heights? I met a soutie thug who runs a workshop in Okavango Park Industrial Area. He lives or used to live in Brackenfell. Drives a white BMW, looks like a M3, his name is BOYD... Do you know him?

p.s. i got my tazz but cant even put mags on or drop the suspension, my fiancee is already sitting on my head. lmao.
Apparently it is not a PRIORITY cos we need to save up for the wedding...
 
On which thread I want to go have a look!  
The top one.  
The transformation thread and I caused it...  
Apparently questioning the KING's facts is not permissable...


Looks like it's time to make fun of them again...
 
leave you for 1 hour and look at what happens, spears/cheetahs stats are up...  
wpw,

Thanks for the email.

I don't know any soutie thugs, only boere thugs.:-D
 
Davids,

You mean the PD's fabrications. :-D
 
PD?

Besides those are not facts.
 
Robd nicked him the Poison Dwarf, remember  
Ah


Being..... dof
 
Anonymous sounds like someone with relatively clear thought...not one of the regular WP bullshitters.

Possibly Redrum or Methos or Gecko?
 
WPW
Welcome! Nice to have you here - spread the word!

Re the other site: I thought they were going to revamp, do away with TypeShit etc.?
 
StPete,

Are you sure it is not your other personality?
 
StP


Have you been cooped up in that hotel for too long?


The Czarina withholding favours?


anon certainly does NOT sound like a methos or redrum.
 
I can't login!!!! Created my Account a few days ago but seems to have forgotten the password.

Goddammit
BTW - Anonymous wasn't me.
Cheers
Methos
 
methos,

Mail me at donner@ruggaworld.com. Will send you the instructions to reset or otherwise just go to blogger.com and search help "forgot password".

Let us know if there is still a problem.
 
Thanks Donner.

I think it should work now.

Cheers
 
Sorry boys, stepped out of the office for a mo, gotta lotta work these days...not so much time to plod around on the internet unfortunately!
Looks like I created quite a buzz over in ruggaworld - glad to be of service.

Just for the record, I did leave the office and I'm not avoiding anyone. And I'm not critisizing at all, please read my post again and excuse the spelling while your at it.
Aldo: I clearly say Duimpie is NOT a big name, I say weighs more than the others. Sorry for the confusion. AvdB is a Matfield type, not an enforcer, WP have those in abundance. Yes JA was a Bok, but when was that, 1996-ish? Kidding, but you have to admit it was long ago. BJB is not a big name, same for the other oke. They are 'names' like Watson and Adri Baddehorst are 'names' for WP. It is more opinion than fact, that's all I tried to point out.
And, no, I'm not Keo - I said muppit didn't I? I'm not degrading your arti's at all, it's just my humble opinion and I did say I'm not a journo. Yes, that particular comment stinks of sarcasm as it was supposed to, I'm sure DavidS can take the odd pull on the leg.

Oh nice try Donner, I see you're your amusing self!! C'mon guys just try man, it can't be that hard seeing my spelling is that bad. And I well eventually tell you, but I wanna have some fun too, I'm not scared, ashamed or anything.

David, thanks for the one on Delport. I guess you more or less answered, but I'd have liked a leetle beet more!
(Shit posted again before I was done, sorry yet again. Now I'll have to give my name to get these bloopers removed!)

Boertjie, agreed 100% someone will be relegated, but should we really be focussing on that? Focus on making the semi's & finals instead and just forget about relegation right now. The time will come and there will sure as shit be one helluva ruckus then.
As for the Stormers getting relegated - when last did they have a proper tight five but they still do well? WP made CC semis and not Tjarks, so it is debateable.



So sorry boys, hope we are straight now - and cut me some slack please!! Great site and it's a fresh breeze compared to Typekakka. I hope more of the guys from elsewhere can visit here more often, just not 3rd, pierre, eugene and those, really don't like them.
I want all the SA teams to do very well this year and I'm hoping for some consitant winning deur die bank. Bad thought that of relegation, but the Spears are up & running so I guess it'll have to happen.

Thanks & bye for now, I'll check in tomorrow again.
 
Anon,

The name "Duimpie", by its very nature, is not a big name.

But I agree with some of your criticism of DavidS's article: Gerrie Britz for instance has played quite a bit of S12 rugby (played virtually all the games for the Cats in 2004).

He isn't a proper lock though.
 
P.S. Why thank you DavidS, I feel so much better after that smack in the face!! I'm not one of the muppits mentioned by StP (thanks for the compliment though StP) but gee, do I come off that bad?
{Snui snuif} Ek sukkel reeds so met my selfbeeld...
 
LOL, nice one Ilposti! And again if you read carefully you'll see I say only some of DavidS's stuff might be el crapolla, there is merit to the rest.  
what is brannasnacht?  
hoediepdan?

Brannasnacht is 'n heerlike samekoms van 'n klomp van ons van reg oor die wereld op Donderdagaande 21h00 SA tyd en dan word daar lekker gedrink en gesels oor alles behalwe rugby. Al die dames wat by ons aansluit doen dit net om een rede en dit is om vir my beter te leer ken.

Vir al die ander administratiewe inligting kan jy gerus vir Donner kontak.
 
Am I among friends?  
Glad if you consider us friends.  
Can't register! Keeps telling me username is not available!

Help! Wanna get away from Stucky!

DAWN
 
HELLO DAWNIE DEAR!!!!

Welcome.
 
So diep soos jy kan(das)

Maar dit klink vir my julle is almal in Pretoria soos julle vir die kalfies cheer.
 
Anon,

koos is dit jy jou bliksem. Die een in Stellenbosch.
 
Kandas,

Sien daar is geen probleem met jou selfbeeld nie.
 
Kandas

Aangesien ek dan net die site gejoin het om jou beter te leer ken, 'n gesig en vollengte foto met laaste 3 maande se salaris strokies sal wardeer word, jy het mos my mail
 
lengtevrees,

Moet ons nou nie so in die gesig vat deur te insinueer dat ons vir die Bulle skree nie. Ons het amper Kandas se kop reg.
 
Tafeltjie

Sal dit help as ek se ek skryf my eie salaristjek?

diepgenoeg?

Hier is beslis 'n moewiese klomp swerkaters wat definitief nie bulletjies is nie.
 
Kandas

Is jy nou weer besig om jou eie horing, ek bedoel beuel te blaas, sodat jy net later vanaand weer kan peeeeeewwwwww

Dit doen definitief baie vir die verbeelding, maar waar is die foto's
 
Tafeltjie

Al fotos wat ek het van my is sonder klere.

Weet nie of jy dit sal kan hanteer nie.
 
Kandas

Ek die foto's nie sal kan hanteer nie of jy vir my nie sal kan hanteer nadat ek die foto's gesien het nie?
 
Hehehe
KANDAS is altyd vreeslik besig totdat Tafeltjie opdaag, dan los hy alles.
En dan raak hy so uitgeput dat hy Brannasnacht aan die slaap raak.
En nou het Dawntjie ook nog bygekom.
Ek sien alweer daar kom niks van dit nuwe site nie...
 
Hallo Boertjie

Lyk my die man raak werklik bang so tussen die vroulikke hormone deur

Gaan dit darem goed?
 
Anonymous is not me. I would never defend the Stormers.

Rob (D)
 
Welcome Rob!  
Rob,

And why not. :-D
 
Ok, my superior senses have kicked in......

The women will know what I'm talking about...

Anonymous is none other than ....

Namboer the platmoer!

Must be!
 
I just got the same idea. Telepatie. Nou raak ek bang.  
You'd better be afraid....

very, very afraid :)
 
Howzit all

Klink my DavidS het julle tone lekker getrap
 
Anon

Sorry if I offended you by calling you keo or one of his cronies. Just seemed like it.

Donner

Jy't dalk 'n punt met die koos vanaf Stellenbosch. Maar hy het alreeds 'n username op die site een waaroor OO al lekker gewonder het vanaf keo se dae. So kandas kan dalk reg wees dat dit namboer is.

Anyway

Glad to see you've joined Dawn. Hopefully you can bring your normal banter to this site.
 
Its nice to see that this site is really taking off, the banter and humor is just surpassed by the rugby knowledge and insight gained.
Keep it up.
 
Donner - you're such a tease. Why ask for my email address and then not mail me?  
Robdylan

Donner's pc crashed last night, sure he is busy reloading everything
 
Told him he must be afraid.... :)  
Jaaa, Kandassie
LOL :-))
 
So kandas is that your idea of vengeance for everything the little dynamite's wife has been doing to you over the past three weeks?  
DavidS

You hit a man where it hurts most is all I can say. :)
 
Kandas

Mag ek beter vryf??
 
Wat?

Die hardeskyf?
 
heheheh  
Tafel


Jy wil dat Kandas die res van jou man se hardeskyf ook laat verloor...
 
Davids

Solank hy net nie maak dat ek my skyf verloor nie, is die saak reg
 
Ah, julle arme rokers darem...  
Davids

Ek dog ons praat van die rekenaar se hardeSKYF
 
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