The Spammers have been SPAMMED, is back online!

Friday, January 13, 2006


Rugby Administration: Social responsibility vs Quotas

The term Social responsibility has been used widely since the publishing of the King II report on Corporate Governance. This is as a matter of fact not the result of the report, but something that a few companies in the early nineties realised to be an important factor while doing business. Referring to the paragraph I quoted from the King II report, the following displays how they incorporated it in the report:

The company must be open to institutional activism and there must be greater emphasis on the non-financial aspects of its performance. Boards must apply the test of fairness, accountability, responsibility and transparency in all acts or ommissions and be accountable to the company but responsive and responsible to the company’s identified stakeholders. The correct balance between conformance and performance must be struck.

What does this tell us? The company has a responsibility outside the traditional environment that it operates. It needs to seek more than just economic gain for itself, but also for the physical environment it operates in. In short the company must evaluate the influence it has on the communities it operates in. They need to be socially responsible.

What does Social responsibility entails?

Social responsibility is the involvement in developing and enhancing the lifes of the communities in the areas you operate in. We are not talking the building of houses, etc. This is the responsibility of the government, although it is not impossible to get involved there. I am referring to the development of skills and opportunities and thereby giving everyone a fair chance. At this stage I would just want to clarify that I am not only talking about the socalled previously disadvantaged groups, I refer to every person living in that area.

Very often we hear about companies donating money for the building of a sport facility or specific type of training facility and that is where it ends. This is not being socially responsible, this is window dressing. To be truely involved within the community you need to get involved. Throwing money around only clears your own conscience and does not uplift people to a better life. Companies need to get actively involved with projects, transferring expertise and skills. I can go on for an eternity on what the pros of such actions will be, but this is not the intention of the article. This is the reason why upliftment has not been successful in many a cases. People are given money or something of monetary value, but never the knowledge or ability to better themselves.

What does a rugby union need to do with regards to social responsibility?

For a rugby union the term social responsibility should actually be its mission. The sole purpose of any rugby union should be to develop, grow and build out the game in the areas that falls under its “jurisdiction”. What has happened however is that, since the game turned professional, the unions didn’t realise their purpose. The management of most of the unions thought the purpose to be profit orientated. With the way that unions are currently structured, I can’t believe that anybody ever thought this way. The result was that everybody was chasing after every cent of profit and focussing on what makes the most profit. The focus was thus in the wrong place.

When SA became a democracy almost 12 years ago, quotas in SA rugby circles was introduced to facilitate the even representation of all races in all teams except the national and provincial squads. Over the years it has become such a contentious issue that most people try to avoid discussing it. Players did not like being referred to as quotas and a lot of selections where made of as quota in total disregard for the players’ abilities, in the end hurting the players career. Looking back over this time and applying the knowledge we have now, anybody that look at it objectively, would realise that this issue was forced and did not offer the desired solution.

So where does the answer lie? The answer is obvious: Social Responsibility. The only way to get a fully representative team at all levels is to start building it from the root levels. Rugby needs to be encouraged at school level as low down as U11 already. I am not saying that every U11 player will want to become a professional rugby player, but to be socially responsible you need to give every one of them the option of becoming a pro rugby player. Just as our education system needs to give every student the quality of education that will provide them with options when they make the decision surrounding their careers.

Why hasn’t this been happening? The answer in my opinion lies with the coaching structures at school level. The majority of schools, especially in the rural areas, only coaching resources are the PhysEd teacher or other teachers willing to help out. Few of them have the expertise to really coach the players and it is more a question of fitness coaching and then telling the players to go play to their abilities. The fine tuning of these abilities are however absent. It is therefore imperitive for the unions to start focussing on their school base of players. The easiest way to do this is to train the coaches and develop their skills. That is what social responsibility entails and can even be linked to empowerment.

The next point of focus should be on the club level in the region. The same should apply to the coaching abilities, but at this level it should be less of a problem than at school level. The youngsters must now be groomed to take the next step up and be able to compete at provincial level. The players being selected at provincial level should actually be able to play with the minimum amount of coaching needed. The coach at provincial level should be enabled to concentrate on pulling these players together in a unit and the minimum amount of fitness and skills training will be required. Provincial teams should be the result of good coaching at lower levels not the beginning. In this way the representation dilemma will be much easier addressed than forcing quotas or just going out and identifying “talented” youngsters and focussing in on them. Teach the "teachers"!!!!

Every kid at school has the ability to become a “talented” rugby player, but he needs to be coached in the correct manner to bring those abilities to the fore. This is the least what needs to be done for a union to claim that they were socially responsible. These structures can then be complimented with for instance business schools where players can be taught the principles which can help them through their careers and after they reached the end of it. The basics boils down to one question that a union must ask itself: “How can I empower my players to enable them to empower themselves and the union?” The time of throwing money into window dressing projects is over. If a union keep on doing this, it is only paying for its own "funeral".

How does SARU get involved?

Like so many things SARU again missed the target by a mile, by shooting at the wrong target. Holding one day rugby clinics with some Springboks at all the previous disadvantaged schools, may be one hell of a treat for the kids, but the real need is to provide a structure of coaches that can teach them these skills everyday. This clinic concept might ease their conscience over social responsibility, but it sure as hell does not fall within my definition of it. The deveolpment of players is in the first place not SARU responsibility, but that of the union. They are closer to the ground and can make a better assessment of the needs. SARU should rather distribute the money earmarked for development to the unions. This way it will be appropriated where most necessary.

This concept as a whole would in my opinion nullify the need for quotas, for the players will come through the system and their abilities will never be questioned.
An excellent post, Donner!

Wish you'd kept it for tommorrow to flesh out the day!! ;-)

Please keep this and post it on Keo when he is back up and running.

What you say is, in my opinion, quite right. The problem we face is that patience has run out and more drastic steps are going to be implemented.

If SAR(F)U had started with a coherent plan like this, and I include the provinces, 12 years ago then it would have worked it's way right through the system by now.

I think that SARU have meant well in the past but not applied a comprehensive strategy to what they were either doing or the results desired from what they were doing.

I do fear that most of the alleged R100m has been flushed down the drain on shotgun approach wild schemes.

I could expand further but I'll leave it there for now.

By the by - DRAGONS!!!

This is a fantastic article.

Well done and well said.

As I said on a previous thread the issue with this kind of skills development and Corporate Social Investment is that the large corporations that provide the money see CSI and skills trasfer solely as a marketing exercise.

It's a nice place to invite the media out for a free meal and a drink, the Marketing Director makes a pretty speech. The black kids sing a nice song.

They hang an FNB / Liberty / Discovery banner on the place, take some photographs, pack up and go home feeling a million dollars, leaving the little black kids with full tummies and nice t-shirts for the day and nothing much else....

My wife is on her company's team that assesses which projects get their CSI spnding, and she says the only criteria that is ever really discussed is not whether its a good cause but what marketing mileage they can get from it....
SARU is now having to resort to drastic measures because they didn't plan for this and they're on the slow boat. Maybe SARU would like to claim responsibility for the players of colour in the U19 and U21 teams, but this is not their work.

It's the work that USASA has put into making sports on school level more representative, so that there are black players in school teams and at school provincial level.

USASA is doing some forceful work at rooting out talented black sports stars in all codes. Yes, given that they're accused of nepotism and corruption, but then again, we have solely them to thank for SARU being able to select an U19 Bok squad with 70% black representation...
I agree with all of you, like I said earlier, they need to change at grassroots level. Then the change would've come by itself. Quotas was needed but it shouldn't be needed anymore, sadly SARU, and to some extent, the Goverment, has failed the masses. Really saddens me.

On a lighter note. I think they should bring in quotas in relationship and force someone applying for a job to get down and dirty with you. Shit, I just interviewed the hottest Coloured and Indian chicks that I've ever seen. Needless to say that it was hard to concentrate on their IT skills. I'd give the job to both of them!
great stuff donner  
Donner! What an article!  
ras' arti on staaldraad and the quota arti's will stay on top for a while - i believe it is worth discussing.  
heheheh Aldo

I recently received an sms from a friend that said something in the line of:

"Under the BEE Charter for Relationships that the Department of Arts Culture and Recreation have published, BEE will now be applied across a wide spectrum of social life.

From 31 December 2005, at least 70% of your friends must be black"

Send your friends a can of black polish. At least you won't loose them as friends.
If I send my friends black polish, all they'll do is tell me

"Does you fink my shoes is vuil doos? Does you wanted a klap?"

I'm living in the East Rand remember...

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Ras & Davids,

I still believe that even with the drastic steps we still won't be there by 2010. The drastic steps are again steps in the wrong direction.

Do they wear shoes? :-)
No donner, they polish the feet black so that it looks like they're wearing shoes.

Oh no wait. Of course they wear shoes. They wear the best of Gypsey and LA Gear tackies out there!!!!

I thought I'd help Aldo a bit here seeing as I do have a soft spot for the Bulls.

I see that the Bulls are in George and Kandas is missing.

I think he's out there admiring a decent rugby team for a change....
but davidS, i dont need nugget hey?

on another note, i travel by train now cos i sold me car last week... so this morning there's a HOT chick sniping me again. And she was playing with ther hair while looking my way. DAMN she is fine!!!

If i wasnt engaged i would certainly use the ols d charm that at present moment is non existent cos i havent used it in ages... lol

Only when i need something from my fiancee...

Sal jy oor die lyn trap? lmao
Geez wpw

Now that you mention it it's amazing how fast you lose it if you don't use it.

You know how many times I've gone out with friends and then my buddies tell me:

"HEY Boet. That hottie over there can't keep her eyes off you!"

And I'm like


Ten years ago, if a chick checked me out like that I'd have been the first to notice and she'd have been history in no time...

Nowadays I don't even see them 'sniping' me...

As for Aldo

A babe is a babe, no matter what her colour...
Geez guys, if you want a sex tip post just ask for it. :-D  
WPW if you were in a club you wouldnt need charm....only Tequilla  
And stop being thuggish, otherwise the Tequila won't work either.  

Tony McKeever is answering your questions right now on the Spears thread
lmao donner...

ja, wat kan ek se? if you got it you got it! lol

so you make the chickies drunk before you nail them... lol
shame on you.

nee, ek is klaar met chicks charf... ek is amper getroud...ek kannie wag vir my license nie...
Two Tequillas and the inhibitions are out the door,that quiet girl you were talking to @ the bar is now a crazy banshee....good times!  
For those of you that need to get on the same level as Wes and myself:

Cape Flats Taal:

Yster : Pronounced: A-ste (r is silent) Unlike the traditionally Afrikaans meaning, in Cape Town lingo, this word refers to anything that's great, novel, awesome. It's an adjective, so use it to describe anything. "Did you see that sound system, it's yster nuh" "That ou got some yster legs"

Gatsby :Pronounced as is This is a Cape Town delicacy, traditionally indigenous to the area but found now elsewhere as well. Picture a fat 30 or so centimeter French loaf. Now cut it lengthways and layer it with the likes of chips, salad, viennas, Russians, steak, egg etc. And voilla, you have a Gatsby.

Geitjie : Pronounced: Ghay-chee (G is a rough throaty sound) This word refers to a busy body individual or someone with malicious intention. "Don't believe a word she says, she's a real geitjie."

Bot :Pronounced: Bot This word refers to the act of being bored, or a boring activity. "That party was so bot!" "Nee, I did nothing, I was at home, bot."

Kinners : Pronounced: Kern-ers In colloquial talk, this word refers to girls/chicks/women. Unlike traditional Afrikaans, where this term would refer to children. "Did you see those bemangde kinners?" "Do you think there'll be some hot kinners at the party?"

Versin :Pronounced: Fer-sin This word can be used to describe someone or something that is crazy, insane or perhaps naïve. "Are you versin? I would never date him" "Don't be versin, just ask her out"

Bemang :Pronounced: Ber-mang This word is used to describe anything that is awesome, funky or cool. "That was a bemangde car, he was driving." "I saw this bemangde dress at the shop"

Nobba : Pronounced: Nor-bah This word can be used as a replacement for the English word regardless/irrespective. "Whether or not" "Noba what your income is, you must pay your debts"

Gufty :Pronounced" Guff-ty This is an adjective and can be used to describe anything that's large or big. "I could'nt finish that gufty sandwhich you made"

Nwata :Pronounced: Nua-ta Pertains to someone acting like an idiot or acting with malicious intention. "That Nwata, nearly drove into my car"

Goffel :Pronounced Gor-fill This word pertains to an aesthetically challenged person. "Did you see the goffel that Mikey left the club with?"

Skyf : Pronounced: Skayf The second half of a cigarette, usually reserved for one's bra. It's also refers to the act of asking for the last part of a cigarette. "Keep me a skyf of your ciggie please"

Bra :Pronounced: Brah This word has no reference to the English word which pertains to foundation wear. The word Bra in Cape Town refers to a close friend or acquaintance. It's a terms of endearment. "Listen Bra, where are you?" "Yah I know him, he's a Bra of mine"

Topatjie :Pronounced: Torpa-chee The end of a cigarette, usually not intended for smoking unless a bra is extremely desperate. "Give me the last drag of that topatjie" "Pick up all the topatjies on the floor"

Donkies : Pronounced: Dong-Keys No this term does not refer to the four legged kind. But rather those bronze coins in our pockets. Typically, this term is used for any coins under one rand. "Don't you have any donkeys to put towards a Gatsby?"

Donner :Pronounced Door-ner This traditional Afrikaans word has been "capelasized" to refer to the act of being beat up. "The Stormers have been donnered again at Newlands" Or a term reserved for those you dislike and wish ill to. "As ek daai donner vang, wat in my huis gebreek het"

Baabie :Pronounced: Baa-bie This term refers to that feeling you get the morning after a heavy night of drinking. (Hangover) "I need another beer for my baabie"

Aweh : Pronounced: Ah-where. This is used as a greeting all over the Cape Peninsula. "Awe jy, hoe gaat (colloquial term for gaan) dit?"

Mos :Pronounced: Mos This word is typically used as a filler in a sentence. "you are mos going to the shop" "you can mos pick it up" It has no real meaning but is used to colloquialise a sentence.

Nuh :Pronounced: Ner The use of the word Nuh is complex and multi dimensional. It can be used to 1. Find out if the listener is following your conversation. "You turn left nuh, then you turn right nuh, continue straight nuh" 2. To indicate that your listening to a story. "Nuh, and then what happened?"

Jol :Pronounced: Jaw-L Having a good time, nice dance moves or dance venue. It also pertains to the act of cheating on one's lover/partner. This word can be used as both a noun and a verb. "Are you going to the jol" "Damn, can he jol" "We had such a jol" "They broke up because he jol(ed) on her"

Nooitie :Pronounced: Noy-T Petains to "not on your life" situations or an exclamation of disbelief. "Are you going to call her?, Nooitie, my girlfriend will kill me"

Fedala :Prounounced: Fir-Da-lah Adjective pertaining to a state of finality, completion or exhaustion. "I was fedala, after the marathon" "When I got there, the food was fedala"

Frans :Pronounced: Frah-NS! Used to describe someone who has no principles and easily jumps to join the flavour of the day. The term comes from the 'Number" fraternity and originaly pertained to prisoners/gangmembers who have no allegiance to any particular gang.

Smokkie :Pronounced: Smok-key Noun pertaining to a place where you can purchase liqour any time any day. This institution is not governed by any municipal by-laws and are operational 24/7 365. Usually found in suburbs on the Cape Flats and surrounds. "They making a collection for the smokkie" " You can get some beers from the smokkie"

Dite :Pronounced Die-T! Noun or Verb used in relation to food and the act of eating. "Did you dite already?" "Did you see all the dite"

Jits :Pronounced: Ger-ts! Adjective, describing something cool. Can be applied across the board for people, scenario's, objects etc. "That's a jits car" "It was a jitse party!"
dont scare these whities away with that GAM taal. Anyway, speak for yourself, i dont talk like that anymore, havent in ages...

Cheers guys, will chat tomorrow again. DavidS: i know you like it up the bum...donner told


I feel culturally enlightened and I will study these terms for when I next visit the fairest Cape.

Of course a whitey using this language to a person in the Cape Flats is likely to leave with one limb removed and in need of urgent hospital treatment....
lol Wes

Ek't jou lekker uitgesort vandag nuh?


Please do not use my name like that. You will be ....., well you know what.

Just heard on the radio that Vodaphone has dropped Ferrari and moved sponsorship to McLaren
Neither do i Wes,high school years spent @ a model C school left me sounding rather fair skinned, but kykie i can still change on the nommer when the ding ruk!!!:-)
LOL Donner
lol province  
Cheers okes

I'm followeing the OO example and heading for the Kraal to look after the little mini me's
Cheers DavidS

Have a goody.

You had me a bit confused there by putting skyf ahead of bra. There was me thinking that the good ladies of the Flats kept their skyfs in their D-cups.

Nevertheless, I mean nobba, I am busy circulating your fine glossary around the world as we speak.
naas one bruvva
Mornings Province


The wife's going on leave today, but the department where she works can't function without her so she's doing amazing hours to get all the work done. She's already postponed her leave twice and she's doing 18 hours a day....

I have to look after the mini me's alone ..... so I'm in a foul mood, because I don't cope too well with lack of sleep...
hows my boere thug friend doing today davidS... Hectic i hear...

Well, i got some news about our wedding plans. We postponing it till end of next yr. Hectic....

Unless some of my boere thugs wanna help out with a few grand, we will have to wait.

Marriage is a bloody expensive bussiness. My wife and I got married this year and we paid for the thing ourselves. Took a lot of saving up, but we managed, still paying down my loan at the bank though. I've got a plan for you. Go to the bank with a gun, hold up the place, get your money and when they arrest you, claim that the bank is full of a bunch of racist Boere thugs who doesn't want to help a coloured guy get married. They have to release you then! ;-)

Anyway, on your question about crossing the great devide (allthough it probably won't happen soon, seeing as I'm still happily married!), my moto used to be IPIPOP, short for, 'n pomp is 'n pomp ou pel!
ja aldo. that is the main reason. money!
i asked her why we cant just have something small and use whatever money we have for a fantastic honeymoon and also for stuff we need like a new bed and washing machine and whatever else... But no, women have this dream about an extravagant wedding... I guess its cos men are more practical...
Why spend a fortune on 1 day when you can use the money for more NB things that will last you much longer?
wpw, it's difficult to understand, but I never thought about the other stuff. I try to understand where they're coming from, girls dream about a massive weeding and looking like a princess on that day their entire life. It costs a arm and a leg, but for them it's worth it. To see how happy it makes them is worth it for me as well. Neither my wife or I lived with our parents any more, we were allready living together, so we couldn't get them to pay anything, and also didn't ask them to. What I see a lot of people do these days is ask the guests to pay R50 or whatever, usually half the amount of what the food will work you out per person. Don't know where you planned on having the reception, but the place where we held our's charged us R100 per person including a three course meal and flowers. I was lucky because we went to a place that had just opened and we were their first marriage, so they gave it to us a cheaper rate, because it was advertising for them. Amasing what they gave us for that small amount.  

Are you telling your current bed is ... well for the lack of a better word... fucked up? :-D

Do yourselves a favour and look at what you really want for the wedding. We planned our own wedding in about two weeks time and we got exactly what we wanted. My wife still looked like a princess (still do BTW) and the total spend for the entire wedding was just over R16 grand 7 years ago. This was to cater for 120 people with drinks , flowers, tables, etc included. Even the attorneys' fees for the prenup.

Shop around.
I agree with you Donner, my wedding cost R20 000, including everything you mentioned, except for drinks. You've got to shop around till you find what you're looking for. Also, I didn't invite my whole family, only those who I see at least once every two months. Otherwise they just come for the free food. That was for 100 people by the way. The wedding dress was allready made luckily, my wife designed it herself three years ago, because she just knew what she wanted to wear once she got married. Lucky me!  

No we are down to wedding planning



Look at this X-mas quote

Whitmarsh wins quote of the week

McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh is a man who knows how to talk the corporate talk but at a media lunch yesterday he took the prize for one of the best remarks for months in F1 circles when discussing whether or not Super Aguri F1 will be granted the right to race in F1 in 2006.

"We have written to Super Aguri saying that we will not oppose their entry," he said. "We have done it because Honda requested it and I made it very clear to Honda that is the only reason.

"My understanding is that at least Midland (MF1) have dug in. If you are a turkey, you don't vote for Christmas and they haven't agreed."

MF1 has the most to lose if Super Aguri comes into F1 because rival tailender Minardi has been acquired by Red Bull and is investment is being made to improve the team. If Super Aguri comes in MF1 is likely to drop to 11th in the World Championship and the current structure of the sport (rightly or wrongly) means that only the top 10 receive Tv and travel money from FOM.
i cant believe i'm actually taking advice from two boere thugs. lol

No, seriously tho, thanks guys for the advice... i want to give her what she wants and we have been shopping around but i am not prepared to make a loan for the wedding, rather save up and pay cash...

The main problem is that theres alot of family who i'd rather not have there but you know what that can cause... Ag, we will just have to wait till Sept 06...

P.S. So aldo, julle't in sonde gelewe. lmao
Ja wpw, moes selfs deur die hele kerklike sensuur ding gaan.  
Why Wes?

Aldo's right. Every chick dreams of the fairey princess wedding they've fantasised about and acted out with Barbie dolls since they were little girls and wedding Barbie was the ultimate one to have.

My wife and I paid for ours too. We insisted because we saw how other siblings got their f---ed up by interfering family members who held purse strings.

With us holding the purse strings, whenever someone (it was only my mother-in-law) tried to impose conditions, you just tell them: Sure, if you pay for it...

BTW, seeing your fiance come marching up to you with that wedding dress on in front of all the people who love you and looking like a fairey princess (she still does too) is worth all the cash you spend.

We were lucky cos we had three lucky breaks. My wife's department does her companies events and conferences and it's one of the departments that reports to her so she could ask their event co-ordinator to lean on one of the places where they stage lots of events.

My mother's a clothes designer. She pulled contacts so we ended up just paying for the material. My suit cost more than my wife's wedding dress!!!!

Another tip, ask for doing it on a public holiday in the week. They offer fantastic rates for people who use their facilities on a public holiday. Ours was on 1st May, and it was a Thursday. Most people can take leave for a two days if they REALLY are your friends and family that care about you. WE also spent about R120 per person.

We were pretty ruthless in the guest list too. We only invited our immediate families, our close work colleagues and our best friends. Ended up with about 70 people, despite my mother-in-law's best efforts....(and she is good)

Another hint. Morning weddings are cheaper.

Wedding season is September to March. They cahrge more in those times. It might not sound romantic, but try marrying in autumn or winter. It's cheaper.

We spent R30K on ours. (perks)

Here's a top secret clincher for you. Get a mormon office bearer to marry you. Mormons don't have proper office bearers. Normal people are 'called' to serve the church. Their religion prohibits them strictly from charging for their services. You loose the crap of having to do something ugly in court, you get a proper office bearer who will give a nice message and you don't pay for it. Our dominee wanted R800-00 plus travel costs.

Ons het vir 5 jaar ook in sonde gelewe

But Methodists are lot more relaxed about the whole thing.

Anyway we got married at the chapel at our venue where a Mormon friend married us.
davidS, thanks bru. 30k is alot of dosh. i dont think our pastoor will charge us that much, and we like him alot so we wouldnt like anyone else to marry us. my fiancee asked his wife to design her dress, she used to be a designer b4 she became a pastor...

we wouldnt really like more than 100 folks there... and best of all(i know you guys are gonna freak out) we dont drink alcohol so we not having any at the reception...
None of our friends drink either, well at least 90% of them dont and my family dont either... Her family tho are a bunch of suip

So we will be saving alot cos there wont be any dop!
wpw, you wrote:

"my fiancee asked his wife to design her dress, she used to be a designer b4 she became a pastor..."

I know they allow same sex marriages these days, but that sentence still sounds a bit weird to me!
Oohhhhhh,now it makes sense why wpw was chirping me about being gay! Wez, you can come clean now, we all know and understand why you support province!!!! ;-)  
Sorry, wpw, just re-read the previous sentence, so now it makes a bit more sense. Put it down to me being in silly season mode.

Still, just put me right here, we have a pastor who is married to a female pastor who used to be a designer, right?
Il postino

It still sounds bloody funny! Don't apologise, you just gave me some ammo to use on wpw!!!
il postino. thats it...

as for me neing gay aldo, are you interested in some chocolate ass!!!lol
that should be 'being'  
I think the issue with sports and with corporate SA is a simple one in that the patience of government is fine but the patience of the people who voted in government is running out at a rate of knots. They're expecting results too and they want them now.  

Then they need to look at the people they voted in and not again try and force the issue. It will have exactly teh same effect as the previous set of rules.

For me that doesn't matter so much, but my problem is the future. I am not saying that my suggestion is the Alpha & Omega, but we can't carry on with all this window dressing bullshit that even the politition do. We need to start empowering th youth and enalbe them to have options.

Hel I don't want to start with this on a Friday.

You started it publishing this article again...
Post a Comment

<< Home

This page is powered by Blogger. Isn't yours?