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Thursday, December 22, 2005


Other Unions/ Teams: Precious little time to turn the All Black tide

By: Mick Cleary
Source: The Telegraph

Andy Farrell will not be the only one reaching for the erase button on any video review of the year. Jonny Wilkinson, Brian O'Driscoll, Sir Clive Woodward - memories are not made of this.

The pall of a wretched Lions tour hangs heavy, the bonfire of British and Irish vanities smouldering still. Scorched by inflated expectations, it was not a pleasant experience.

Perhaps, though, we shouldn't look to douse the embers. Perhaps we should leave the amnesia-inducing gadgets alone. The lessons from that summer trip should be etched in every coach's notepad.

The game in the home unions needs to look backwards if it is to move forward. It needs to take on board just how the Kiwis were so dominant, just how it was, and is, that New Zealand can play with such freedom of expression and be successful.

True, England did run them close at Twickenham. But consider that New Zealand were on their last legs after an arduous season; that England had home advantage; and that they were playing against 14 men for the best part of half an hour with three All Blacks in the sin-bin.

We can carp about Kiwi cheating, rail against their indiscretions, yawn wearily about their obsessive, one-eyed support. But these are mere gripes and sour grapes. The black tide was pretty much irresistible across planet rugby.

The game in England is at a key juncture. Its power-play inclinations will take it so far. On its own it will not be enough to win another World Cup.

It has somehow got lost amid the fug of extended Sydney celebrations that England did not simply bulldozer their way along Route One to get their hands on the Webb Ellis trophy. The Martin Johnson-fashioned victory had its origins in a far more complex, multi-faceted game than is now being acknowledged.

England spluttered through that tournament, causing them to go back to basics. In the six months prior to that night of glory, they played some quite breathtaking rugby, notably when dismantling Ireland to win the Grand Slam in Dublin and then doing a similarly impressive number on Australia in Melbourne.

Andy Robinson's England have to find an equally devastating range of abilities if they are to prosper in France in two years' time. The signs are not promising, for reasons not wholly in Robinson's control.

The Premiership over the last 12 months has not been an awe-inducing environment. Too much caution, not enough desire to explore new frontiers. The fear of relegation preys on the mind of at least six clubs. Someone needs to flick the switch and liberate the players.

Cast your mind back over the last year and it is difficult to lift too many gilt-edged memories from the domestic locker. Wasps have had their moments, so too Sale, blending might with sleight. Even Toulouse, though, failed to tickle the aesthete's buds, their Heineken Cup victory over Stade Francais at Murrayfield a triumph of pragmatism rather than adventure.

Wales, of course, did throw off the shackles and got their reward. They dared to fail and succeeded as a result. Their brand of rugby suits their temperament, their build and their resources.

The fact that the Six Nations opens with the Grand Slam champions coming to Twickenham is just the thing to whet the jaded appetite. That game will set the tone for so much of what follows.

So much for the collective. What of the individual? Hats tipped to Mike Ruddock and his close-knit band of brothers in Wales, with their unassuming ways. So, too, to Martin Corry, whose flinty, self-effacing style has given England the necessary inner core. They have the foundations.

Now they need the frills. Expect the Wasps flanker Tom Rees to become a fixture in the England back row and let's hope that Mathew Tait, the 19-year-old Newcastle centre, gets the chance to show that the scars of last year's Wales-England encounter have well and truly healed.

Gavin Henson picked him up that day and dumped him from a great height. Fate has introduced the spikey-haired one to the other half of the twin imposters since that day. Farrell would dearly love the chance to make acquaintance with even a distant cousin twice removed of triumph. He is desperate to play, to show what he has to offer.

The same is true, if for different reasons, of England. They have no obligation to win over hearts and minds. They need to impress the opposition, not their critics. That will be the best way of all to banish the blues of 2005.

That was sick Davids. How can you guys do this. A good dose of Dragons would do it for me!!!!  
wpw would swallow if it was Bryan Habana  
How did my comment just show before yours?

wpw used OMO to be able to stay in a "White Zone" in 1984!
These self pontificating Poms. I hate them with such a deep rooted passion.

We won the same number of games that the Kiwis did in this year and we were the one team to beat them and then lose by a last gasp try following on a mistake from Jean De Villiers.

The Kiwis were relieved to get away from us in Dunedin with a win.

Now these Poms go on pontificating about how the AB's are unbeaten and swept all before them.

Now let's make no mistake here. They ARE the undoubted best team in the world and they are better than us this year.

Now the only question that remians is why everyone says they're unconquered in 2005. They're not.

We beat them...

Good picture.....

Where's the one I gave you to edit?

BTW, you didn't think what Wes said about you and I on the previous thread about the PI and Argentina was similarly sick...

Your's will be coming to you today, left my memory stick at home, but will try and go in lunchtime to go fetch it.

Oh well, Wes can't help it, he's coloured! lol
aldo, one word for you:
Oh, and by the way, i am only staying in a 'white' area now, well at least since 1995... lol  
Eish wes, what did I do now?  

And I get away with it!!!!

Poor Aldo my boere thug buddy.....

Maybe it's cos wes can only see in two dimensions...
Van absoluut geen relevansie nie maar weet enige iemand waar ek fotos van oud bokke soos Danie Gerber of Frik Du Preez kan kry? Verkieslik op die internet. Ek soek al amper 'n uur lank na ons helde van gister maar ek kry niks...  

Probeer google images.
Thanks Aldo
Ek sal probeer.
Jis jis manne hier sit ek nou in die Downtown Backpacker in Wellington NZ.Ek het die ferry van Picton af gevat en die see was darem rustig gewees.ek sit nou maar hier met n paar Lion Brown biere voor ek so n paar pubs gaan slaan.Ek is besig om ontrekkings simptome tekry van nie braai nie.Ek kon darem so 4 skaap choppies in die kombuis op die grill barbeque maar dis mos nie n Karoo skaap choppie op n hardehout braaivleis vuurtjie nie.Maar nou ja ek is nie exactly gespoil vir choices nie.Die manne hier is rugby befok in vergelyking met ons.Hulle sal seker dink dis net n hobby hier.Soveel winkels wat All Black merchendise verkoop.Elke taxi drywer wil net rugby praat met my.Ek se gewoonlik vir hulle dat dit my verbaas hoe hulle as n nasie mediocrity op die sportsveld ge embrace het en hulle ondersteuening vir die All Blacks staaf net daai punt baie sterk.Dan raak die kerels maar skaam en terug getrokke.Die Sounds is moerse mooi as n ou die ferry vat met net so n uur van boring oop see.Well manne dis omtrent dit vir nou,of wat ek sover wil deel.Ons alamal het mos so n paar geheimies.:-)
Eish Bliksem, geniet jou trip. Hoop nie jy loop jouself in 'n groot Maori vas en se vir hom die mediocray lyntjie nie!  
Aldo ek het al klaar en hy is my vriend so hy lag net.Ek het fokken hot maori girls al hier gesien,min maar hulle is.As jy n mooie sien is hulle moer mooi.Hulle is down to earth niks kak vat mense nie.Ek bly maar weg van die tourist spots af,ek haat toeriste hulle irriteer my.Veral die pommies.My dorm kamer het gelukkig net myself in vanaand.Laas nag was een van die mak moere in die kamer n pommie gewees so ek het maar met my hol teen die muur geslaap.Dis nou 21:20 hier,so Tackler is eintlik Keo.Die jole begin so 22:00.Dit het so 21;00 begin donker word.
Okay Bliksem, geniet dit maar! Lekker jaloers op jou, fok ek sit nog by die werk!  
Geniet dit bliksem

Hoe was Queenstown gewees?

Soek jy steeds vir Tackler?

Jy laat my sommer heimwee kry nou man!

Wag tot jy in Amerikaanse toeriste vasloop. Dan sal jy leer dat Pommies eintlik nice is.
Talk is cheap......

The Boks haven't won in England or France for almost 6 years....and,if we are honest about it.....don't look like doing so anytime soon either.

A painful fact.
(Unfortunately) true...
Eina StP

Painful painful beating the Bulls and Freestate and having nothing to show for having the best rugby team in SA on paper and having nothing to show for it....

I'm seeing my therapist this afternoon.....

So how do you feel about Jake White saying the 3N isn't as important as the EOYT next year and he wants to focus on success in the NH next year.

I actually reckon if he plays the home tests to win and plays experimental sides in the away games and then prepares the Boks for the EOYT only he'd be doing us a favour. Beating the Kiwis and Australia shouldn't be as big a priority as beating those Poms 2/2......but comprehensively....not just three or four point spread but 20 or more points.
Absolutely, St Pete.

I'm bitterly disappointed we couldn't beat France this year as well.

Until we beat the Poms anywhere, and break this rapidly developing hoodoo, I'm not going to pan the Poms too much on the field.

Next year we play them twice, maybe the extra year's maturity will help our tight five come to the party. If they don't then the Poms will lap us up again.

I'm trying to stay realistic and keep things in perspective with old Jake. He's done wonders but have we added any arrows to our bow since last year?

My sneaky feeling is that Jake stumbled onto a plan that actually worked, much to his surprise as much as ours, and he is now terrified to experiment or change anything for fear of losing the 'magic'.

Hard to blame him really but I can't see us winning the RWC in 2007 if we merely replicate last year, this year and next year's play.

Still, maybe I'm being too harsh and demanding. SA players seem to mature slowly, perhaps by 2007 we'll be a well oiled and comfortable machine.
It seems to me that in 2004 Jake White put all his energies into making sure we don't lose anything in SA - it worked

In 2005 he focused on beating a rampant AB side - it worked 1/2

In 2006 focus on beating everything in the EOYT

That's not true

How long did it take Oom Kitch to mould the 1995 Boks?

And Nic Mallet with the 1998 Boks?

In both cases it took a few months. Jake is trying something revolutionary in Bok rugby. Trying to sustain a winning team...
I hope you are right, David.

I'm getting some doubts but 2006 will go a long way towards answering them.

Personally, I want to see Jake taking on the Master Strategist role, dump Gert and Alistair, pick up Heyneke for the forwards and Carel for the backs.

In 18 months I haven't seen any improvement in our forward play except for Newlands where they played out of their skin.

St Pete and I won't be happy until the Boks start getting a few pushover tries!!!

67% is a nice percentage of wins for the year but I can't help remembering John Mitchell getting the bullet from the AB's despite a win percentage in the high 80's overall.

Jake will be into his 3rd year in charge next year, we need to now start becoming dominant and we definitely need a successful EOYT for a change.

I agree with the HeadMaster role for Jake & Heneke & Carel to be involved as Coaches.

The fact that Jake is "focusing" his energies on the end of year tour is crap.

The Boks are supposedly not playing any CC next year.To my mind...that means a maximum of 15 S14 games for players that play in the final and 13 test matches.

28 games maximum........more likely it will be around the 24 mark considering injuries and squad rotation etc.

As far as I know....less games than the Tim Noakes mob recommend.

As far as I'm concerned we should be challenging for everything.

Does JW not now have the almost perfect enviroment to work in?

Good,I'm pleased for him.......but now lets see some results.

You can't honestly expect to get a new bigger office with a newer computer and secretary, and expect to do the same work as you did the week before,surely?

We should be very watchful withregards to national coaches screaming "Player Fatigue"....when it is the gameplan or lack of one ,coupled with sometimes bizarre selections that is the real reason behind our poor performances.
Withregards to Jakes "work enviroment" comment, he has been given all the things he has asked for.

He has his player stat system setup.
The Boks are being pulled out of the CC and only given time when it's convenient for him.
Coaches are starting to play players in positions he wants them in.
Coaches are talking to each other?
There is a bigger affirmative action criteria than ever before.

What could he want next?
Private Lear Jet for the end of year tour?
Howzit ST Pete

See on the Spears thread you are worried about the "status" of my "outhole". ;-)

I am a Cheetah fan- we respect all opposition and yes The Spears may beat us-but it will be an honour to play them.

Do the 6000 in red scare us- no- just like the 45 000 in baby blue did not either.

The Cheetahs will always respect the competition, as we do respect other people- unlike some.

22 October 2005 will still hurt for a long time heh- and it is hurting deep inside nogal- as the blue bull sphinter has maybe mended as yet.

BTW- how is life?
Well said Rasp

I reckon Jake is a master strategist and the courses that the S14 coiaches will present before the S14 will go a long way to assist in bringing about a universal playing style for SA teams.

What worries me though is that guys who are presenting the most important courses are Gert Smal with rucks and mauls which is a weak area of Bok play, and Alistair Coetzee is presenting noting while Frans Ludeke is presenting the course on attacking play.

Personally I reckon Rassie should be brough on as assistent coach while you appoint Frans Ludeke as backline coach and Heynecke Meyer as forwards coach to the Boks. If he sticks to his guns about not wanting an assistent job however, then make Rassie the forwards coach.

Let Jake do what he does best...lay the plans...

Then let good established and intelligent and more importantly, successful coaches, teach them to the team.

My thoughts are that Gert Smal has never coached a team successfully. I mean he took over WP Stormers from Harry Viljoen after WP had consecutive Currie Cup Final wins and took them into decline...

That's worrying. And Alistair hasn't exactly lit the world with his coaching prowess at EP. Maybe the season with Frans Ludeke will help....

leave rassie just where he is ...for now ;-)
Can't see Meyer taking on a fulltime assistant coaches role at the Boks.

I'm also not one to place the blame squarely at Gert Smals feet.

He can also only work within the guidelines laid down for him by the head coach.

Tim Lane had the same problem when he was with the Boks.If Strauli decides that Van Straaten and Halstead are our 10 and 12....doesn't matter how good a backline coach the guy is, the backs won't do the business.

The Blue Bulls don't hare "sphyncters"......we have "Poepols"!!!

Geez OO

I thouight just a short jab of

"Ja, the same as Loftus' blue intimidated us"

would have done, but yoiu have gone and stretched it out and out and out...

Torturous for poor Aldo, even though StP deserves it for his acerbic remarks.

He's a good foil for the rest of us though...
So the Blue Bull poephols look like those of a 28's bitch after his first five years at Pollsmoor StP?  
You okes go on about the Cheetahs win as if I give a shit about it.

I am not a WP supporter.

75-14 does not bother me.
Do not waste your time on that avenue of attack.

Something more cutting than a lucky CC win every 30 years is needed.

There is one thing,as a Lion supporter,that you should never've got Jorrie.

Aldo was not the intended "target"- seeing that ST pete speak about "attacking".

I am just out for a cyber-jol- rectifying something that was posted last night- when I was already gone.

But since St Pete is indicating that he is not giving a shyte about the Cheetahs win-then I will close up shop on that one. ;-)
eish, why all these comments about my poephol. It's still nice and virginal. How can you guys give the Bulls so much crap. Rather give it to St Pete. It's Okay OO, like I said, you guys have the bragging rights at the moment. Just remember one thing, it's easier to get to the top than to stay at the top. Once you've defended a cc successfully you can start saying what a brilliant team you have.  
I'm glad to see that Davids knows the pain I'm going through, even OO said just now that I wasn't the intended target. thank Heavens, I feel so much better, NOT. You talked about Bulls poepols OO, you'll never live this one down!!!  
I know StP

Its like people here think it bothers me that people rail at the Lions and the Cats.

I can't be bothered really...not after supporting them for what 30 or so you really think nailing me with some remark about them being good on paper only bothers me....

They've done enough to me to laugh about them. I have no expectations.

However, those all important precious wins when they perform to potential and do things like beat the Brumbies in 2004 and then Bryan Habana ripping the Bok midfield to shreds later that year.

The S12 win against the Bulls and the 38 pointer at Ellis.

Man those are cherished forever, even if there's no cup in the cabinet...

But yes

Jorrie Muller

Gauteng's answer to Gus Theron...
And didn't Strauli consider them for a Bok midfield pairing?

What was he thinking?

Are all of you contextually challenged??

My remarks was not about bragging rights- that I used for about a week after the final.

I do not live in the past.

Read St Pete's post on the Spears thread last night about the Cheetahs losing to the Spears-and how i must be nipping whashers- then read my post in that context- I was taking a swipe at a certain Blue Bull Supporter- not the Bulls and the rest of the Blue Brigade- but hey

if it is a tiff - handbags & all- that you are craving for- lets do it!
This site is getting a definite gay undertone. Talking about poepolle and Davids mentioning that his team has done enough to him! I'm becoming a bit worried on here.

Just kidding, Davids, I'm with you, I've supported the Bulls from the day I started watching rugby and nothing anyone says or does will change that. I will allways be there, with my supporters jersey and hope for some sort of miracle.
A bit touchy this morning OO. Did the little orakels keep you up last night?  
No Aldo

I am in an extremely good mood.

Like I said, read the context.

Some people have extremely short memories- but then- if their nuts are frozen the whole time- and every second post on this site lately has some reference- to poepol- in it, then do not be surprised why it suddenly is showing some similarities with Keo.

Like i said, I am in an extremely good mood.

how are you doing?
We were all just taking the piss, except for St Pete, he looked serious. Anyway, we're just abit bored at work, so we talk crap as far as we go.

I'm doing excellent, thanks for asking. I'm in an extremely good mood, up to yesterday I didn't have any leave, then out of no where, my boss anounces that we'll be closing down tomorrow at 12 and only opening again on the 4th of January. But I'll still drop in from time to time next week. Promise.
Ja whatever aldo. i know you got a WP and Stormers jersey in your cupboard...
davids, if we have gus and you guys jorrie, who do the bulls have thats shite and the FS and Sharks?

Let me see:
Sharks- Used to be Rudi Keil, Von Hoesslin, the whole geriatrics(typo) and now Strontlie. LMAO.

FState have Ollie overrated Spur man, but i think after this CC victory we cant call him a shite player.

Bulls? I have no idea... Wessel Roux? He is a crap player. cant believe he is a Bok...lmao

I have every conceivable Bok paraphenalia but nothing for the Lions. Hell even my kids have little matching Springbok outfits!

I do have a Cats baseball cap from the first S12 ever played. It's battered and tattered and one of the things people recognise me for.

I also have an old Beeld Poster that reads

"Klap Hulle Cats"

That comes along to every match.

But I do support them, mostly through this, but sometimes through thick too.

The Bulls don't have to hope for miracles too often. They're too damned good. Me, I just hope that by some miracle the team ON PAPER comes out and plays ON THE FIELD!!!!!

Now that is hoping for a miracle....


Chill boet....

Read the context ;-)

I am chilled boet- about as laid back as an LA langoustine next to a bottle of Graca..;-)

Which reminds me of Brannasnacht tonight- must do something special for me & the Missus

Ollie has bought himself a farm next to Bloem- so he will either become even bigger or fitter soon.
I recall before the match between the Bulls and WP last year...tyhe one that the Bulls drew with their B team, someone said the Bulls team sheet reads like this:

1. Stormram
2. Stormram
3. Stromram
4. Stromram
5. Okay he's class Victor Matfield
6. Stormram
7. Stormram
8. Chief Stormram
9. Stormram
10. Stormram
11. Stormram
12. Stormram
13. Fastest prop in international rugby [Frikkie Welsh at that stage]
14. Stormram
15. Stormram


I have no idea who can be a Jorrie at the Bulls. Maybe Wessel but geez he's nowhere near the league of Jorrie, Gus, Kleintjips, Ollie, Trevor Halstead etc.

Aldo maybe you can help.
The Bulls doesn't seem to have a Jorrie in their team at the moment. They did have Franco Smith a couple of years back. I'm going through the teamsheet as we speak, will come back with a Jorrie in the team.  
Davids, might be a good idea, we don't want to be called the second keo, do we?  
I did

But the 'we're becoming like keo remark hurt a bit.'

Hmmm Maybe it's time for an



type of post....
** Att all Bloggers **
Jeeesh okes---relax,it's almost Friday.

I think that if I had to self evaluate my streghs as a regular blogger, they would have to be that I can come across with the same tone regardless of weather I'm pissed....or taking the piss.

This of also my weakness.

Not that I give a toss about all you losers anyway!!
This site is catergorically not turning into a KEO clone...................we are short a few million users/losers.  
Wessel Roux may not be international calibre but he is an honest hardworking CC/S14 player that would add value to most setups.  
This is a public service anouncement, made by me Aldo, this has nothing to do with the board and I will appreciate it if they stay out of this. In recent days this site has become a lot like Keo. Please stick to stories and don't post anyhting unrelated and don't talk about someone's poepol! Failure to stick to the rules will result in the users's computer being hacked and child porn be downloaded via his internet connection. This will result in the SAPD knocking on your door and a long embarressing trial. You will become known as a bunny in prison. You have been warned, remember I ONLY ASK ONCE!  
Sure St pete

And since we will be losers for the next 29 years ;-)

interesting point that your strenght is also your weakness

Plato made that exact point 5 000( stand to be corrected) years ago as the town -drunk staggering around the Athens market -as reported

"every organisms strenght is automatically their weakness"

I also believe that you will see it around you in Mother Russia a lot
Thanks StP

Now I have another thing to discuss with my therapist this afternoon.

Seems most of us are good at taking the piss without appearing to.

Seeing as you hang about with us losers all the time in any case....


Seems I have no comeback for the Jorrie remark

Hopefully with the quotas in place the git won't make the Cats team this year...which is more than I can say for the Stormers

On paper at least we don't have Jorrie inthe team yet..


If I recall Strontlie did test out Jorrie at 13...was it against England in the 2003 RWC or one of the other teams like Samoa or Uruguay?

Now wpw will be the first to post an unrelated story seeing as he would love to....

No wait

Let me just leave it there....

So StP

Which Bulls player do you reckon fits the bill of your Jorrie closest?
Do you guys not heed to the warning of the mighty ALdo!!!!!?????  
Anyway, does this threads title remind you guys of something?

It reminds me of a certain Pres SA had. I can just hear hendrik Verwoerd say," Broeders, staan vas in julle geloof, ons het bitter min tyd on die Swart gety/gevaar terug te dryf en hulle om te draai! Kom manne, Doen dit vir VOLK en VADERLAND!"
Do anyone knows if the 14 jan game will be televised?  
I never rated Robert DuPreez.

He'd be my Jorrie.But then I missed most of the Bulls rugby from '99-'02.There may be some that stand out.

Yes StP

There was an overrated git if ever.

Lucky for you he went to Natal at some point and replaced Craig "Yapper" Jamieson.

He was one of those players who always looked behind the Bulls because the Bulls were always going forward and stable with their forwards of the 80's, butthe mminute he had an ounce of pressure he cracked like a coconut falling on concrete.

I especially remember the 1989 trials between the Probables and Possibles before the World XV toured SA as part of our 100 year celebration. Garth Wright had been selected as Possibles 9 and all the Bulls okes were the moer in, until the first scrum. Du Preez was the Possibles 9 and his scrum went backwards and the rest of the game was history with Du Preez having an absolute nightmare match...

End of attitude...

He was recruited form Western Transvaal in any case...
Ek het 'n paar sneps van Frik wat in Springbok Saga gedruk is.
Kan dit vir jou aftas en aanstuur as dit vir jou so belangrik is.
vryskut at

Is jy nie bang jy skend die kopie reg houer van Sprinbok Sage se outeur nie?

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